Scenes From an Interview: Dr. Xernona Clayton

Trumpeting for a Better World

By Gus Mollasis

Dr. Xernona Clayton has spent a good portion of her life ensuring that after she is gone, people will judge her by her words, deeds and her character, and not by the color of her skin. It is a lesson taught to her by her friend, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. She learned many things from the great man and has taken the torch from him – fighting the good fight for civil rights, embracing love over hate, character over color. She trumpets her belief that we are a lot more similar to each other than we are different and has preached patience in her struggle to fight against prejudice, bigotry and racism. 

A trailblazer in television, she was the first black person to have her own TV show in America’s South. Dr. Clayton climbed the corporate ladder at Turner Broadcasting, becoming one the highest-ranking female executives, while working under the renowned media rebel Ted Turner. Rightfully recognized over the years with a “Meryl Streep” number of awards for her varied accomplishments, including  the Leadership and Dedication in Civil Rights Award presented by the State of Georgia Commission on Equal Opportunity, the first Coretta Scott King Award from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC), and the Madam C. J. Walker Award from EBONY Magazine’s Outstanding Women in Marketing and Communications, Dr. Clayton is obviously highly regarded. She has trumpeted the value of the African-American community by producing The Trumpet Awards, which highlights African-American accomplishments.

But what really makes her tick is telling good stories about a man who was a king and a friend, and who, while on this earth, did Godly things to bring the races together. You can catch her one-woman show this coming February at Manatee Performing Arts Center when she shares her stories about Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., capturing the true spirit of the man from someone who really knew him. As I spoke with her, she was on the road in Las Vegas, and I couldn’t wait to sit back and talk to this incredible woman about her life’s journey and the importance of character in some very spirited scenes from her life.

As a child, what did you dream of being when you grew up?

I wanted to be a church musician. I think it stemmed from the fact that my father was a minister. At age 12, he thought I was mature enough to take over as the choir director for the senior choir of the church.

What is the greatest lesson you learned from your parents?

There is a price that you pay for your behavior. When my mother would give us an 11:00 p.m. curfew, she didn’t mean ten after, she meant 11:00; if we weren’t there on time, she would give us a good spanking. And of course, we hated her for that, but you get over the pain. There is a price you pay for your behavior. She would say, “Don’t be mad at me. You created this.”

The Trumpet Awards, initiated in 1993 by Turner Broadcasting, is a prestigious event highlighting African-American accomplishments and contributions. What do the Trumpet Awards mean to you?

The world. Let me tell you why. Growing up black in America, I understood one thing that Dr. King taught me amongst many things. He always felt that all white people didn’t hate us because they loved to hate. It was his belief that some white people hated us because they just didn’t know us. So we have a kind of responsibility to educate them. You know, the richness of our vast contributions were not known – even in black communities. I created this show because I got tired of watching our people on TV being portrayed as buffoons, looking silly and acting irresponsibly like clowns. I knew that’s not how all of us are and that I’ve got to do something. Because I was working at CNN and had television at my disposal, I wanted to create something. So, I used the tools there to put on a show that really described the contributions of our people. I started the program trumpeting loudly and broadcasting to the world that our people are not all lazy. 

There is story that proved Dr. King’s point and validated my efforts for what I was doing. A white mother from mid-America called me and told me that her parents taught her to hate all black people. She told me that “they never said some black people, they said that all black people were lazy; that all black men would rather stand in line for a welfare check than they would for a paycheck; and that every black woman would rather have a baby than have a job.” This woman ended up hating all of us, so when she got a glimpse of the Trumpet Awards, it piqued her interest. She said, “I have two little girls and I don’t want them to grow up with the same prejudice that I grew up in, so send me those tapes. I don’t care what they cost.” We heard many stories like that. The program brought pride to our people while educating other people. I’m very proud of it. The awards have taught and encouraged many little boys and girls to be something when they grow up.

The Xernona Clayton Show made you the South’s first black person to have her own primetime talk show. Please give me some perspective on that compared to today.

I feel like I absolutely opened the door. And so when you open the door to opportunity, the door just keeps on widening. It’s so wide open today that the presence of an African-American is no longer new – it is commonplace. It was brand new when they first saw me. I was considered a success when I went on the air. It didn’t scare everybody off; it was a positive step. Back then, some people were fearful because I was on air. Somebody at my station wouldn’t work that night because they were fearful that the white community would come and burn the station down. But it didn’t happen. It ended up being a completely positive experience around the country. 

What was your greatest takeaway from working at Turner Broadcasting? 

Mr. Turner’s personal belief, the changing times and the attitude of “let’s get us one.” So I became the one. But by that time I had already built up a positive reputation in the community. I was responsible and good at what I was doing. I took what I was doing very seriously. I never acted like I was special, and I always wanted to do well and excel. 

As one of the highest-ranking female executives in Turner Broadcasting, was that a big deal to you, or did you just shrug it off and say, ‘what’s next?’

I didn’t shrug it off, but I wasn’t pompous about it either. I used the experiences I’d had as teaching tools for other people. Excel at what you do and be serious about what you do. Every success I’ve had has been based on that.  

What is your greatest quality as a person?

Reliability. You can count on me in every way. Will I do it? Yes. Late? No. On time? Yes. Do it well? Yes. I know in my heart and in my spirit that I’m reliable and other people know that. That’s how people describe me.

In 1965 you accepted a position with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and worked closely with Dr. King. What are your thoughts on what made him a man who deserved all the reverence he’s received over the years?

The man practiced what he preached. And that, to me, covered all of who he was. When he said that there was no way he could hate, I saw him prove that. When he said, “You can’t separate us into black and white people,” I saw him act on that. When he said, “We have to be true to ourselves and true to our God,” I saw that. As busy as he was, he was a family man, who when he was coming home from trips on which he was trying to solve the problems of the world, he took the time to play games with his children. He told me the most painful thing he ever endured was to tell his 12-year-old daughter she couldn’t go to Funtown, an amusement park in Atlanta that is no longer there. You would pass it every time that you would go to the airport. Every time his little girl was in the car, she would say, “Daddy when are we going to go to Funtown?” She would be excited just at the mere sight of the amusement park. He kept telling her that one day he was going to take her, and he would say, “When I come back…When I come back…When I come back.” He was dodging the real answer. One day he said, “I can’t do this any longer. I can’t be untruthful to my little child any longer. I’ve got to tell her the truth.” So he sat her down and said to her, “You can’t go to Funtown because you are black.” What was so painful to Dr. King was that he was teaching her about being good and going to Sunday school, going to church and praying, because there are good people in the world. He said it almost contradicted what he was teaching her and what she was learning. So now his little girl says, “What do you mean I can’t go? Why would someone want to deny me going to Funtown? I’m a good person.” He said it was the most difficult task. He finally told her that it was because of racism and that’s why he was working every day trying to change these kinds of things. You tell your children that people are good, but then they find out that some of what you say may not be the truth. 

What is the greatest thing you learned from Dr. King?

To be patient and that we can’t stop until every white person feels the same way about race relations that we do as African-Americans. And that as people we are more alike than we are different from each other. Until a man’s heart is changed, you will never be able to regulate his behavior. You have to work every day to regulate the heart and behavior.

You’ve traveled extensively with the late Mrs. Coretta Scott King on her nationwide concert tours. What’s the greatest thing you learned from her?

Being a wife and mother and living in the segregated South was challenging for anybody. Mrs. King never wavered. She had a big heart and a lot of times she had to be the mother and the father because Dr. King was out working trying to change the nation. She was so good and could organize the house from afar. She had great rare and unusual strength that allowed her to keep going, to change people’s hearts and minds.

Finish the following sentences:

The key to great television is…

Honesty.

Ted Turner’s greatest gift was… 

Compassion.

Racism will disappear when…

When we all understand that we are more alike than we are different. Love is simple, not difficult. 

When I think of Martin Luther King, I see a man who…

Practiced what he preached.

How close are we to being able to judge a person by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin?

The behavior will always bespeak the truth. The way a man acts is usually the way he thinks. Patience and understanding and the will to help correct people and channel them in the right direction will also work. But you can’t change the world with one step. You have to be committed to it every day. Wherever racism raises its ugly head, you have to have the tenacity to say come on, we can do better.

Please tell me about the time you fought against the dragons of prejudice and bigotry in 1968, and when the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan denounced the Klan and credited you with influencing his change.

This man would come to visit and confront me with examples of racism and he tried to have me accept it. For example, he’d ask me how many colored people in Detroit own their own homes? I would answer I don’t know. He’d follow up asking me how many colored people in Mississippi own their home? Again I would say I don’t know. Then he would tell me figures that more black people owned their own home under segregation and did better under that treatment than those that moved to the desegregated North. Then he would just laugh and laugh. I told him that he could take numbers and make them do what he wanted. But every Friday he would put on a white robe and dress his family in comparable clothing and go out and do harm to black people. And I said, “You call yourself a Christian and are a deacon in your church, a high position, where you are supposed to being doing Godly works, but these are not Godly.” I told him that I wanted him to do me a favor. I want you to stand and look in the mirror in your bathroom and ask yourself the question: “What kind of parent am I passing this bigotry on to the next generation and what kind of Christian am I standing in church in front of God filled with such bigotry? Think about that. The Bible says to clothe the naked and feed the hungry. It doesn’t state only if they look like you. Take all of that in and analyze it, and then see what you’ve been doing here on earth.” 

I think the patience I had to share my views on his bigotry worked on him. He was a tall, handsome man and I told him that he was blessed with an outward appearance, but not with a heart to match, and that he was not appreciating what God had given him. So I told him to think about it. I was not swayed or influenced by his craziness and then I saw him a little speck at a time making a change. One day he left my office and drove a few blocks and saw a man eating out of garbage can. He called me and told me that he saw the guy. He said, “I’ve seen colored people eating out of the trash can before, but somehow, since I’ve known you, I see that differently now. He picked the guy up and drove him to nearby restaurant, fed him and went on his way. I called the restaurant to verify the story. I gave him some plaudits for that and said, “I bet you feel good about what you did, feeding at least one man.” I think that I was so patient that I did not show anger was the key to my success with him. Then, one day I went out shopping and I came home to find all these cars in front of my home, police cars and newsmen all wanting to ask me what had happened. And I didn’t know what had happened. What had happened was he had called a press conference and had announced that he was coming out of the organization and was denouncing the KKK. He credited a black woman with changing his negative attitude. And I was that black woman.

Can love really conquer hate?

Oh yes, yes, yes, yes absolutely.  

What do you hope the main takeaway is when people read your autobiography, I’ve Been Marching All the Time? 

In this book I talk about Dr. King and my personal relationship with him. Here was a man so big, many people saw him as untouchable, so to speak. People want to hear stories from people who knew Dr. King personally. He won’t make any more news. In the book I tell the stories that actually happened and put them into the proper context. As Andrew Young said, I’m probably the one who has spent more time with him than anybody. And I thought maybe he was right. I thought he had spent so much time with him, but I spent time with him as my boss and then time with Mrs. King, traveling with her, and then I ended up being his confidant who he shared private thoughts and incidents with. I served many purposes in his life and he in my life as well. I knew what his private thoughts were.

Why is it important to keep marching?

Because we aren’t there yet. We haven’t yet reached the pearly gates. We have not reached the part of understanding each other. We have not reached the part of serious love and respect for each other. We have not reached the part where we can let everybody be themselves and accept people as they are. We don’t have the good America yet. We don’t have the love that we need in order to, as they say, “make the country great again.” Until that happens we have to keep marching forward. 

Tell me about your one-woman show.

When I was sitting around in private settings, people would always ask me to tell them a story and as you can see, I don’t mind talking. One story leads to another and people would tell me that I had stories they never heard of, that I should share these stories with the public because they need to be told. And so, it grew from there. The stories are intimate and personal and people relate to them. Once, when I was in Boston, the Attorney General told me that he had never heard anybody graphically describe a person like Martin Luther King so effectively. We continued to get compliments and, as they say, the rest is history.

You are a member of Ebenezer Baptist Church, formerly co-pastored by both Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Martin Luther King, Sr. Do you feel their spirit there with you on a Sunday morning?

Not just Sunday, but Saturday, Friday, Thursday…every day. 

What kind of qualities are you seeking when you are presenting someone with the Xernona Clayton Scholarship? 

The same thing I’ve been talking about. Plan your life in the direction you find it and it’s going to be your path. Work hard at reaching the goals of what it takes to be good at that. Be timely as you do that. Be good at what you do. Don’t half-step where you’re going. 

Do you have different advice for white and black students on how they can make the world a better place?

The message is the same. You’ve got to do something. Each individual must take it upon himself to make the changes he can make. It could be the neighbor next door or the hungry man in the street. The man who is eating out of a garbage can doesn’t have to be lazy person, maybe he is sick and has had some bad experiences. You don’t even have to know why he’s eating out of the garbage can. The Bible says to feed the hungry. The message is the same – do what you can, as often as you can, but just never sit on your can.

You’ve received a “Meryl Streep” number of awards over the years for your accomplishments. When you’ve finished your march and you have put all of life’s awards and rewards in perspective, how would you like to be remembered?

As a person who gave as much as she could, as often as she could, under all circumstances. 

 Dr. Clayton will be at Stone Hall at Manatee Performing Arts Center on Saturday, February 2 at 2p.m. For tickets, call 941.748.5875 or visit ManateePerformingArtsCenter.com